Local Market Monopoly

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Mike Tedford: Any more with social media. People are, checking you out. Try before you buy through social media before they ever reach out and talk to you. And so, you know, when they click on your LinkedIn account, when they click on your Facebook page, when they look up your website, what are they seeing?

Clarence Fisher: Welcome back to Local Market Monopoly. I am Clarence Fisher. Your host. Having professional photos is a great way for you to establish quality gain, trust, build influence with your audience and who better to take your photos than a professional. That's exactly what I thought, but what I did not know was what photos to take. What poses should I take? What should I wear? How do I come across looking natural? I did not want to look like I'm taking a photo, but I did want professional photos. And I found the guy. I actually, I knew him for quite a while that did that in the result is our podcast cover. The result is a lot of our social media and some videos coming from a one single photo shoot. It is incredible. So I want to, I want to bring that to you, just like I always do, right. Share my resources with you. So I brought on Mr. Mike Tedford from Mike Tedford photography to walk you through that. How do you have the ultimate personal and business brand photo shoot. Hang on. You're listening to local market monopoly with Clarence Fisher, covering the tools, tactics, and strategies, the most successful small businesses use.

Clarence & Mike: Hey Mike, welcome to the show. What's going on, man. Thank you, Clarence. I appreciate you having me here today, man. I'm so glad to share you with my world. So, uh, maybe I have to believe this world, but my world, my world,

Mike Tedford: You know what though? I tell you some of the Clarence I, you don't know how many times I talk about you and I use you an example from time to time. And so I'll be in meetings, I'll be talking to somebody and I'll say, Clarence, you know Clarence. And then they'll look at me and they're like, they're like, you know, when I talk to people about Clarence, I talk like everybody knows you because everybody should know.

Clarence Fisher: Oh man, thank you very much. Thank you very much. All right. Everyone knows why Mike's my friend, right, man. That is awesome. I appreciate it. So you are the photographer really quickly becoming of the, of the stars, at least the atmosphere that I'm in. Tell us about Mike Tedford Photography and how you're helping your clients.

Mike Tedford: Oh, you know, I tell you what photography is kind of a second life for me. So I was in a kind of risk management insurance. And I did that for 30 years and back 2017, I quit, I retired, I repurposed my life. I don't have however you want to describe it. But, um, I had an opportunity to make some changes and I took that opportunity and didn't do it with a plan. Um, the chance came and I took it and I was looking around kind of going now, what am I going to do? And I got my first camera when I was a freshman in high school, loved photography. You have done photography all of those years. And just constantly working at that craft as a hobby. But I mean, I think most people would look at what I was doing and say it was, it was far more than a hobby because I had way too much equipment and, uh, was working at it pretty steadily on the side and didn't want to do it as a profession because I was afraid it would take out the fund that I would, it would be quote-unquote the job.

Mike Tedford: But I finally, I finally made that transition probably 2018 where I said, you know what, I'm going to do this as a profession. And, uh, it really kind of shift in that mode. And I'm so glad I did. I'm having such a good time, the adage that they say that if you do what you love, you don't work the rest of your life or you know, is absolutely true. It's absolutely true. And don't get me wrong. I love the insurance side of it, but the craft of photography is just the next level up for me. I love doing it and have fun. And I think that, um, I think because of that, it's infectious when I'm working with people, I think they pick up on that cause I'm having a good time. So they have a good time. It's not something, uh, it's not something that I find a tedious and laborious or anything of that nature, even though there's some skill that needs to take place with it.

Mike Tedford: You know, there's some, there's some time and, and effort. I did go back to school. I have a degree from OSU in photography now. And um, that's just the compliment to me. One of the biggest conflicts and it just happened yesterday. I took some photos for somebody they're a small business that is suffering from the shutdown of events and COVID, and there's a, there's this marketing campaign now kind of going on called red alert, talking about how the event industry is, is being so heavily impacted. And I did some photos for them. And this morning I wake up and find out that one of my pictures has been used as their profile photo on Facebook. And that right there to me is always a huge compliment when somebody uses an image that I've taken of them on Facebook as their, or I would say Facebook, LinkedIn, wherever it may be as a, as their profile picture, it means they like that picture enough of themselves that they want to use it and show people. And that is, I couldn't be happier when I see that taking place. That is great.

Clarence Fisher: So that means, you know, I love you, right?

Mike Tedford: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Clarence Fisher: That picture that he took of me is my Facebook profile. But even, even bigger than that for though, for everyone in the audience, the picture that you see on our podcast cover that is on everything, Apple, Stitcher, everything is a picture that Mike Tedford took of me.

Mike Tedford: And I, you know, people give me a hard time at times cause I saw that picture. I saw that picture and I was like, man, I took that photo and I sent you a message, you know, kind of like how much I liked it, how I think it looks good. You know, people say, well, of course, you like it, you took it. But it goes beyond that. I mean, cause when I look at your, the graphics, because I took the photo, but then you worked with another graphic designer to have it all put together in this. What I think is a fabulous piece that looks good. Represents well. And what you don't when I see that to me, it just, it just makes me happy. It makes me feel good. Yeah. I took the photograph, but when I know it's been done, right. And I know that you're using it in a manner that is, that is really helping you and it's successful in business and you're able to promote yourself in a, in this way. That is truly inspiring to others. It just to me is, is a happy feeling. And you know, I love sharing that with people and that's why, you know, I wanna, when I see it done and done well, I want to tell people, man, it looks fantastic.

Clarence Fisher: Excellent. Well, thank you. And that's why, I mean, that's why we're here. Let's talk about that. It took me a while to decide to go ahead and get professional pictures done in anticipating ramping up marketing. And you know, it just seems like as a number one as a business owner, I'm like I'm too busy to break and do that and have to deal with all that. And then I don't know how the positioning and all that stuff works. So I'm sure there are lots of our audience here are local business owners and professionals. I'm sure they are having some of the same thoughts, but since we did that and you edited the photo, you took the photos you walk me through, from everyone who's listening. I have no like I was totally lost. Like I showed up and I didn't, I didn't know, Hey, this tire, this tire, this, you know, do you remember?

Clarence & Mike: I'm like, okay, I don't know what we're going to do here. I'm just being honest. I am clay in your hands. And we walked through that and you know, a week goes by whatever time went by and you sent me some photos and I thought, Oh my goodness, this is how people get that look. This is how it happens. And so we've taken it. And as you seen, we've started rolling it out in our marketing and it has become an asset for us. So I know the advantages, but let's talk a little bit about that. What are the advantages that you have seen that professional photography has for business professionals?

Mike Tedford: Well, really Clarence has, we're talking about this. I'm probably going to roll it back just a little bit and not just necessarily talk about for, at first photography, but just talk about advertising in general. Sometimes, as entrepreneurs and business owners, we get so busy working in the business that we forget sometimes to work on the business. And when that's happening, things are kind of getting these things are kind of not getting kind of taken care of. And so I initially in my former life, I had a principal in mind that I was always going to carve out time when it came to marketing and making it personal. And what I mean by saying that is when we did a commercial, when we did radio, when we, you know, it was a television commercial, we did radio or anything of that nature. I always made sure that you were seeing my face or hearing my voice because I thought that was important.

Mike Tedford: I thought that that, that represented well, yes, I could have professionals maybe do voiceovers or things of that nature, but having me, making direct contact with people I thought was kind of critical to it. And so photography is part of that and having a good photo, having a good headshot is critical. So, and that headshot has so many different levels of, of use whether you're going for a speaking engagement and they need that, whether you're, you're using it for a profile picture so that you can kind of represent yourself because checking you out, try before you buy through social media before they ever reach out and talk to you. And so, you know, when they click on your LinkedIn account, when they click on your Facebook page, when they, when they look up your website, what are they seeing? And we want to be sure that we're putting that I hate to use our best face forward, but that's what it is.

Mike Tedford: We're putting our best face forward. And it's also something that we want to be sure not to create. Here's our big word of the week, cognitive dissonance. If you've got a photo that's 15 years old, you're going to create cognitive dissonance. And what I mean by saying that is especially as an individual, who's in some form of trusted advisor position that they see your picture and then they show up and that you don't look alike, it doesn't match. And then they start to think, well, what else are you not really telling the truth about? So there's, there's a little bit of everything that flows in this that you have to kind of, that you can't just do it once and be done. It's kind of a flow that takes place and you need to kind of be working on it all the time. And you know, people will look at my LinkedIn profile sometimes or my Facebook page.

Mike Tedford: And they're like, I just don't want to spend that much time on social media. And my position has always been, you don't have to spend that much time. It's not, it's not something that you do over three or four hours in a month or a year and says, it's done. It's something you do 10 minutes a day for the guys who shave. And I have a beard now. So I don't shave as much as I used to, but shaving was something I did. And it wasn't, it was something I did every day. And it was five, 10 minutes every day. And that's kind of like LinkedIn, I'm going to go in and I'm gonna spend five or 10 minutes every day. Maybe it's on LinkedIn. Maybe it's on Facebook, something of that nature, but I'm just going to do that consistently. I'm just gonna do that consistently.

Mike Tedford: And so at first you're gonna think, well, I'm not getting anywhere but long term, as you continue to do that, you're going to build it up over time and you're going to continue to build it up over time. And then you'll reach that point, that tipping point that you kind of right and then hiring professionals to help you in those, in those moments is, is extremely helpful as far as the kind of doing it. And that's where, you know, we're talking about hiring a photographer, hiring a photographer to really help you stage things. They're going to see things that maybe you're not going to see. They're going to help arrange things and manners that are really going to help things look good to some extent as you're kind of doing that. So, and they're going to have the right equipment when you're hiring a professional, they're going to have the right equipment.

Mike Tedford: They're going to be able to provide you with higher quality images. That will look good. They're going to be able to edit. You talked about editing a little bit ago, be able to edit in, in some ways that just enhance things. And I'll put this perspective, lets you know, as far as kind of getting down into the leads for a photographer, but when I take an image, I recognize that my camera can not reproduce what the eye can see. And so when I'm editing, I'm not trying to create a lie. I'm not trying to tell a story. That's not true. What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to bring forward in that photograph what my camera has done to more represent what the eye can see. You know, how many times have you been on vacation, gone someplace and you see somebody, Oh, it's beautiful. You take a picture of it. And then when you were showing somebody, your, your comment has always, you know, you had to be there and that's the result that takes place where the camera is great. As it is sometimes needs some tweaking to help bring forward with the eyes seeing. And that's what the editing's about. That's what the editing's about. A lot of times it's taking place and there's a, there's a real talent and a skill that, uh, takes place when you're doing that, that editing

Clarence Fisher: The camera doesn't take the picture, doesn't take the picture of what you're seeing. That is the truth. How many times are you even just driving down? There are times to be my wife are driving down the turnpike and there's the sky just looks amazing

Clarence & Mike: Get your camera, take a picture of that and it looks nothing like what you saw. Right. And that's what's taking place in that situation. That's where the editing kind of can help. And then there's just the, um, the trained eye of a photographer to help you, uh, with the pictures. And that is, you know, art. My joke was another photographer, friends of mine and others that I've worked with is we talk about the roving trashcan, how the roving trashcan seems to always get in the photograph he jumps in there somehow. And those are just, those are just little things sometimes to pay attention to that you know, as I'm taking pictures, that's what I'm kind of looking for is, I want to make everything look it's best. And, and then as well as after making it look, its best is it's working with you Clarence because you're nervous.

Mike Tedford: You're not sure what you're doing here is to make you feel comfortable so that I'm able to get you to relax. Cause inevitably, when did you pull out a camera, people kind of have this tendency to tense up and I don't want that to happen. I want you to feel comfortable and show me that comfortable you, that we see on a regular basis, that if I'm just sitting in a meeting and visiting with that is the Clarence, for people who haven't met you, it's what I've referred to. As the Clarence smile, you've got one of the best smiles I have ever. You know, I, there just certain people have certain little traits and things of that nature and I can look at it, man, it's the Clarence smile. I love the Clarence smile. It's comforting, it's relaxing. It tells me that you're genuine. And, and you know, when I pull out the camera, that's what I want to see. And so I've got to find that relaxing place for you that you feel comfortable to let me see it so that I can capture it on my camera.

Clarence Fisher: How are you? Well, let's go. Let's go. Before I ask that, what are some of the common misconceptions that you feel professionals have about professional photography or, or the industry in general? I know for me it was one of the things was, I don't know. I just didn't feel that primadonnaish about it is that I don't know that that was something I had to get over in my head. But what are some of the

Mike Tedford: Well, there's, there's a variety of different. There are a variety of different stumbling blocks that people will have when it comes to, to photography or professional photography. And that's one of them is you want to maintain there's that sense that you want to maintain that humility, that you don't want to think of yourself. As you said, a primadonna and hiring a photographer to take your pictures. You know, you sometimes you say, well, you know, am I being pretentious when I do that? And that's, that's not, that's not the case at all. I used to have a, what I kind of refer to as a wall of fame, but at the same time, it's just champion moments. If you're not going to toot your horn, I mean, other people are just not going to do it for you. And I, that's just kind of an unfortunate scenario.

Mike Tedford: And so, and in the course of business, I've had a magazine covers and I've had where I've been on magazine covers or I've been on the, on, in the newspaper or things of that nature. And whenever those happen, whether it was me, my brother, somebody within the office that, that got that honor, I always made sure it got put in a frame and hung on a wall. And so we had our, our champion moments, you know, people might refer to as a wall of fame, but it was our champion moments. These are the moments that really highlight successes for us and visually, you know, when you can kind of see it visually. And so if you're not capturing those moments, then it's are other people going to do it for you? Likely not likely not. And that's, that's the Primadona on the side of things, you know, in that moment.

Mike Tedford: So I have, um, I do have a regular cause for people to reach out to me for, events and things that they're doing and asking me to come and take photographs of that. So whether it's been award meetings, awards, presentations, it's been groundbreaking moments, things of that nature. It's, they've hired me to come out and take the picture. And, and the beauty of it is as a, as a professional photographer, that's what I'm there for. That's what I'm focused on. I'm there focused on capturing the moments, capturing the right moments and that's what I'm paying attention to. And that's what I'm dedicated to do. So when you have somebody else, well, even like you talked about me photographing you, you know, that was what I was dedicated to do for you in that moment. And so, you know, to kind of get past that feeling of, you know, being the Primadona allows for you to now have these images that really represent well.

Mike Tedford: And I think another, another misconception, I don't know, say misconception, but the hurdle is, you know, people will say to themselves, I don't take very good pictures. I'm not photogenic. The camera doesn't treat me well, whatever that may be. And I just see that that is not true. That is absolutely not true. It just, it just means you need a little bit more practice. That's all, it means you need a little bit more practice, but it is true that some people have one side that's a little better than the other, and you need to figure out what that is. And then there are, uh, posing strategies. This is on audio. So I can't visually show you what some of these posing strategies are, but there are posing strategies. And if you employ those posing strategies, you really start to enhance that, bringing out your best self and what you did realize when I'm working with you, Clarence is in my mind, that's what I'm getting you to do.

Mike Tedford: I'm getting you to do the pros, opposing strategies sometimes about really necessarily just telling you that's what I'm doing is getting you to look this way. Look that way, tilt your head this way, pose this direction. And I'm just getting those out. And one of the best examples I ever saw was with Brad Pitt, somebody lined up all of these headshots for Brad Pitt over the course of about 20 years. And they showed in the early pictures that nobody had showed him how to pose. And they went three or four years where they were like, nobody showed him how to pose. Nobody showed him how to pose. And they were like, bam, somebody showed him how to pose. And from that photograph on, it became the classic iconic Brad Pitt. So we're all used to seeing, because somebody showed him how to pose and he practiced it so often that when the camera comes out, it's natural. And so really that's what kind of, as, as people, you, if you don't feel like you, you photograph well, you'd need to find those strategies and start employing them and practicing them so that when the camera comes out, you just naturally go into that flow and you can take that, that better photograph.

Clarence Fisher: That's interesting. I didn't know about the Brad Pitt thing. I didn't know that, uh, I didn't realize at all what you were doing with the, with the posing, but when I afterward you do it, when it, you know, it's kinda one of those things. When you see a red car, when you're thinking about getting a red car, then you started seeing red cars everywhere. Afterward. I started noticing poses.

Mike Tedford: Yes, yes.

Clarence Fisher: This is what's interesting to me and totally blew my mind that you were able to do is I was, I was apprehensive, anxious about taking photos that looked like I was posing. I wanted it to be natural. And I did not, you know, it's gotta be crazy. You have to deal with this all the time. I wanted it to come out and look natural, but I did not know how to make it, how to, how to do that.

Mike Tedford: Well, one of the things and this is a simple one, I tell this to a lot of people. And once you kind of hear it or see it, you can't unsee it to some extent the natural position. And again, this is audio. So you can't necessarily see it as I'm talking about it. But the natural position, when I say smile, what a lot of people do is they pull their head back and as they smile. And so, especially as a, like for myself where I have a few more pounds than maybe I really care to have when I pull my head back like that, and my chin down is I create more chins. Okay. And so when, and it's, it's a natural thing, and I'm going to tell you this, and now you're going to go through all your older photographs and you're going to start seeing how you did this, but you that's what you do.

Mike Tedford: You pull your head back and your chin down a little bit. Now that's not everybody. There are some people that, that, that, you know, are not, are not doing that. What happens like with the selfies, you see what people have the selfies and they're holding that phone three feet up in the air and looking at it. That's what they're trying to get away from. They're trying to get away from that, that chin. And that's why they're, that's why they're doing that. Okay. And so that's where you, I want people to get. You probably didn't even notice when I'm working with you, they're in the studio. The last word that I want to use a smile, because I don't want to invoke that muscle response that, that causes that I talk about showing the emotion and things of that nature, because I don't want it.

Mike Tedford: I don't want to, you know, that Pavlov's dog effect of saying smiling, getting what you've always done. And so when we're doing it is, is you just have to start thinking, I need to bring my chin. It's my chin and nose and forehead out. You don't want to necessarily point them all up in the air. You just want to bring them out. And a camera is a two dimensional, taking a two-dimensional picture. So we can't necessarily see that that's what you're doing, unless you just you're straining too much. So, but these are little tricks. I don't mean to get down too much into the widths for people. These are just little things that I'm doing with you, but you can definitely do it on your own.

Clarence Fisher: No, I love it. I love it. So what do you, are there any other obstacles that you think are preventing professionals from seeking or hiring a photographer?

Mike Tedford: Well, I think, I think one of the obvious obstacles is, is cost. I think you know, there, a lot of times there's a concern over cost for, for how much is this going to cost me? And it's, that's just a matter of, of kind of getting your mindset right? And when I say that I used to have a CFO that worked with me. He said that your advertising dollars, 50% of your advertising dollars are successful in 50% of your advertising, dollars are wasted. You just don't know what you, 50%, if that makes sense. You know? And so, and that, that's sometimes a challenge. When I was working more on the corporate side, every time something new happened, we were opening an office or hiring new staff person, especially with hiring the staff person. Well, office too, cause I take the photograph.

Mike Tedford: I hired a writer because I'm not a very good writer. I can take pictures. I'm not a very good writer. So I would hire a writer and I would take a headshot of the, of the new staff person. So a lot of new agents were coming in, especially in new markets. And so I would hire this writer and I would hire, I would take the headshot. And then I would send that out as a press release. Now, immediately that went to my website, my social media, they got put in all those places, which instant benefit. But when I sent it out to the newspapers or other sources for getting the news out, you know, sometimes it just fell, just fell onto the cutting room floor. It just went nowhere. But I'm telling you what Clarence, the days that maybe it was a slow news day or whatever it was.

Mike Tedford: And they pick that up and they ran that. And because I was providing a high-quality image, I had good type copy because I had a professional writer helping me write it. When those things got picked up, it looked fantastic. And that's what I want to portray. That's what I wanted to show. And that's what if a business owner can get a little bit beyond that feeling of the finances that they're spending to hire these professionals to do it. I hate to use the word guarantee here, but I have such certainty that when they see the results, they will be quite pleased with them. It'll definitely enhance their, their social media feeds. They have well-written texts where written content and have professional photographs to go along with it. That is just such a big deal. And it used to be before social media, that you were just reliant on, on the local newspaper or someplace that you can kind of send it to. That was doing these things in print with social media now, and websites you have an immediate use for this material that you can use. And then everything else beyond that just becomes a huge bonus and they will, as you're being successful and you're having good moments in your business, those are the things they are looking for. Those are things they want to report on.

Clarence Fisher: That is so true. I like that you said, you know, when someone, when an outlet picks that up, I tell people all the time, you know, when I'm meeting with teams and they're getting discouraged because they don't have 50,100, 200 likes on every single one of their social media posts. Is this working, is this working, you know, we don't want to keep putting this stuff out and there you can't tell, there's no way to tell what goes viral or, you know, quote-unquote viral in a local sense, meaning people pick it up, right. But you have to be there in order for that to happen.

Mike Tedford: Well, I get a certain sense. I know what you're saying. I get a certain sense. I, I can either times when posting something on it, I'm not too excited about this one. I don't think it's going to be there. And a lot of times it's not, but then there's, there's some that I'm really getting a lot better at. And I'm, I mean, loosely defining what viral means, but it has some traction and I'm kinda like, okay, this one is going to have some traction. I get a feeling when, when it's there and keeping in mind, social media is social media. So you do need to be social about things, not just showing your product. You know, if that makes sense. I mean, showing your product is great. People need that information, but you're likely not going to get a lot of traction on that. But when you have those moments happening in the office, things are taking place is capturing those moments and sharing those and knowing sometimes to hire a photographer, maybe to show up, to document those moments, if that's what they're there for, that's what they're there to do.

Clarence Fisher: Great, great segue into, you mentioned the websites and I'll tell you right now that our next session me and you would be here lately. I have figured out another use that. I mean, totally great. Number one is the website and you, and you brought that up, but having professional photography, real photography of your team, not just the stock and not what we call your Google My Business listing, which is your local listing. When people are searching, you know, and you pull up, you can put photos in there, the perfect place to put the photographs that you're talking about, where you come in, you're taking pictures of what it's like to be in your, in your office, what it's like to work with you. And when someone, because the statistics that we're seeing on Google My Business for everyone listening, is most people who click your Google My Business listing, either call or come visit your business within 24 hours.

Mike Tedford: That's a fantastic statistic. That's amazing.

Clarence Fisher: So how awesome is it because you know Mike, that the experience that their experience starts from the first time they're seeing this from you. Your first connection with them starts there.

Mike Tedford: That's correct.

Clarence Fisher: I'm totally looking forward to revamping our Google My Business. And then also, you know, I tell our clients, Hey, this is, this is what you need to be doing.

Mike Tedford: I completely agree. I completely agree with you on that. And it, you know, as far as creating, just creating those moments, giving people a window into your business. And you, you can't, I'm not saying that the stock imagery is bad. It's, there's another photographer who took that. And you're buying that from him, licensing that from them. But to be able to use stock imagery is not going to give them a window into your business. And that's, that's what hiring a photographer and having them come out.

Clarence & Mike: Right. Right. I do like, it's a constant. So when we go back to doing it yourself, cause I know everyone does it, you know, there are different levels. Like you said earlier, you start with one level of kind of getting your feet wet or whatever, double your toe in the water. And then you can increase, increase, increase. When you're doing this yourself. What are some of the pitfalls that you see or mistakes that you see, people may either, either doing it themselves or maybe they make these mistakes with someone who they feel like is a professional.

Mike Tedford: You know, I think, the standpoint of doing it yourself, there's two, when we're specifically talking about photography, there are two things that I think happened. One, you generally don't have the eye for it. So you're not necessarily taking the most ideal photograph or framing it, reframe it. Well, the other thing is you're trying to do it while you're trying to do something else. So let's say that you decide to have a business after hours and you say, I'm not gonna hire a professional photographer because I'm going to get, I'm going to do it myself, or I'm going to get a family member to do it. Do they have the right equipment? Do they have an eye for it? Is this something they're dedicated to doing consistently? Because that's what I mean. I can't, I've got several jobs right now that I get consistently with, with some of my clients that they're professionally in business doing like videography or other things of that nature.

Mike Tedford: But they're hiring me as a still photographer because that's what I'm there to do. And that's the only thing I'm there to do. And so they would comment that it's, they get far better results having me there because they always forget to do it until the end because they're focused on something else they're focused on their primary role. And so, you know, when you're doing this in a small business, if you're saying, well, I'll capture these moments, you just typically you're doing it in a rush. You're not ready for it. You know, you're distracted. You don't think about it till the end. You know, you may have only gotten three or four images and I'm going to walk away with 400. So I'm going to have a much better selection of pictures because that's what I was there for. That's what I was working on.

Clarence Fisher: What do you think that we need to be that's a good point. That's a good point. How cool is it to just not have to worry about it earlier on? You said something about when you

Clarence Fisher: Are there, you are there. And I have hired a photographer at one point to where, when I got the pictures back from an event, I thought, why didn't he tell me that my collar was hanging over? Like, no, my collar was under the lapel and it was always a weird like one was under, one was over. I just thought that whole workshop like that. This was at the very beginning. And I, and I'm thinking, Oh, there was a videographer. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I'm thinking, I just assumed that you would have my best interest.

Mike Tedford: Well, and that's really, that's where this kind of broadened the topic just a little bit is as you're kind of saying that, because as a professional photographer coming in a lot of times, that's where I'm trying to understand the scope and the groundwork of what's taking place, which is important. Am I the only one there? Am I the only one doing this? It's helpful to know that because that means that those are the kinds of things that I'm looking for. I'm looking for is the tie straight, is the collar, right? Is the jacket, you know, proper things that things, you know, is the trashcan in the background. Those are the kinds of things that I, I start to look for and start to be aware of when I know that I'm the only one, maybe who's going to be there for the event.

Mike Tedford: Now, there are other projects that I've worked on that require more than that. And, and saying that is, you know, some of the projects requires hair and makeup, and I'll ask that questions a lot of times, depending on what we're doing for the project is do we need to have hair and makeup on, on-site? Do we need to have them here? That's an additional cost, but it definitely can make a huge difference in what we're doing. And when hair and makeup are on site, that's their job. That's the kind of thing they start looking for in that particular case. And as the job gets larger, perhaps there's an assistant on-site as well. And then what that does for me, what that really does for me on a project when we have a little bit larger project. And I don't know, as far as if our listeners, if some of them are thinking they want to just step into that type of a project, which is absolutely something that is phenomenal to do, especially if we're doing some video type work where we're really trying to put their best look forward because what happens is in order to get a good look with a photograph or with video, we got to set a light at them and we start throwing a light at them.

Mike Tedford: That's where hair and makeup start to make a bit of a difference. And that's important to look at. And so, but that's where it kind of, I'm able to really then focus on only working on getting the best picture that I can get, because I know that I've got these other people around me that are helping me, that they're looking at the outfit, they're looking at the collar, the tie, the dress, whatever it may be, or I've got the assistant, who's looking at the background and he's making sure the lights are set right. And things of that nature. So those are things where you're talking about a project that become important to discuss in the scope. And when I'm dealing, when I'm talking to somebody, you know, professional, or I'm talking to somebody that's sometimes when I'm trying to get the lay of the land for, I'm not trying to upcharge you, I'm not trying to take a project and blow it up and make it bigger because I think I'm going to get more dollars for it. I'm trying to, I'm trying to figure out where we are in the scale of what we're looking for so that I make sure we're doing it right. And I'm not really, I'm not bringing something to you. That is not what you're looking for.

Clarence & Mike: That's great. So, so it sounds like if, if my photographer videographer is not asking these questions, I need to be aware of this. I need to be aware to have these conversations of kind of what I'm looking for, but I'd love the outcome to be instead of,

Mike Tedford: Yeah. A lot of truth. I was thinking about before that, before we started, I don't know if you know the story of the gentleman who bought a very expensive yacht. He had this very expensive yacht and he couldn't get the motor started. And he brought in these different individuals to try to get the motor started and they couldn't get the engine started. And he finally hires this, this older gentleman who kind of comes waddling in and he looks the whole thing over and he reaches into his old tool bag and he pulls out a hammer and he whacks on it in one little spot. And this now gives a try. And it just starts right up. And he sends the boat owner, his invoice for $10,000. And the guy's just bored that it costs him $10,000. And so, because this is a big yacht, big, expensive yacht.

Mike Tedford: And he says, I'm needing an itemized list of how you got to $10,000. Cause all I saw you used with a hammer. And so he says, yeah, you're right. He says it was $5 for the hammer. And it was $9,995 for knowing where to hit, you know, and that's, that's the experience that's coming to bear when you're, you know, sometimes when you're hiring the photographer, but you're thinking to yourself, why am I spending these dollars, you know, on something? And, and I'm not saying a photo shoot is going to be $10,000 when I give that example. No, but why am I spending those dollars? And it's because I know what to set the lights. I know how to get you to pose. I know how to kind of do some of these things that you're not going to get from somebody else. And that's the value of hiring professionals. But I think we can talk about that across the board, whether you're talking about a doctor, a lawyer, a real estate professional, or even like you Clarence in the marketing world. I mean, you have a lot of knowledge that you're bringing to the table that is really helping the clients, the people like me, what you were just sharing a moment ago about Google. That was, that was information I was unaware of.

Clarence Fisher: Yeah. But, and I agree. I agree that well, I agree that when we're talking and I like that you threw that on, on me and my job, because I have to on that very first call or calls is to figure out exactly what you want. Like what's the absolute, what's the result that you want to get you there? That's, that's a great example. So let's say that I've decided to invest in this and we're going to do this. Can you walk me through, what's a, what's a breakdown of how do you get the best out of a photo shoot? Like what's going to happen?

Mike Tedford: That's I can tell you what I do. I'll go with that. You know, I'm going to, somebody reaches out to me and we're going to have a conversation. And so I have to get kind of understand the scope of where we are, what we're working on. And so say it's going to be simply a headshot, maybe professional headshot. So, you know, we're going to, I'm going to have to determine, are we doing it outside? Are we doing it inside? Are we doing it in the studio? You know, the one that you and I worked on was in the studio, but that is, but it doesn't have to be, I can do it in your office so I can kind of set up in your office or we can do it outside someplace. So making kind of those determinations of what our location is going to be, and then, you know, the appropriateness of what the dress needs to be because if I'm going to be working with somebody who's in the construction industry, I probably don't want them wearing a three-piece suit.

Mike Tedford: Remember we talked about cognitive dissonance. If you're never going to be greeting your clients in a three-piece suit, then we probably don't want you in a three piece suit for the photograph we want you in, in something that you're typically going to be wearing on a consistent basis when you're visiting with your clients so that it represents who you are in that sense. And then I'm also, I've got a little form or one for men, one for women that I will send out. And that form kind of gives some hints about, you know, I hate to bring some of these up, you know, but have you trim your nose here lately? Do you need to get a haircut? Do you need to shave the day before? Are the clothes that you're planning on bringing? Are they, what do they look like? Are they fraying or do you need to go buy some new clothes?

Mike Tedford: Did they fix you well? And that can go a lot of ways. Cause you know, Clarence, I, I don't know if you've talked about this on your show or not, but you've lost some weight over time. It, when I say that to you though, you know, that's important because you've been very successful at losing weight and I'm not talking little amounts. So you did very, you were very successful, but that means that when we do a photo shoot, if you're still wearing those clothes, that when you were 40 pounds, they're not going to look right on you. And so we, you know, that's where we need to make sure that those are some of those discussions to try to have kind of upfront with the expectations. And that's just kind of leading up to that moment before the photo shoot takes place. And then there are some videos that I will occasionally send people on posing and say, Hey, watch these videos before, before we get in there and kind of give you a better understanding about posing so that they can kind of see that.

Mike Tedford: And if somebody's just interested, the photographer's name is Peter Hurley. And it's the video. One of the videos that he does is called "All about the jaw". And so somebody wants to, somebody wants to look that up. They can, they can search that on YouTube and find that very helpful information. That's kind of out there and available, but those that's kind of all the things that I'm doing beforehand, you know, and I can tell you, I did a couple of professionals where one watched the videos and the other didn't and it just because he prepped himself in advance, his headshot went much faster because he kinda can kind of knew what to do. You'd already practiced in advance. And when we got there, we did it just knocked it out very quickly, got a great image. And then when it came to the, to the next gentleman, he had not watched it.

Mike Tedford: So the result was, it just took me longer to, to kind of work with him. And, you know, as far as to get him into the posing positions that I was looking for and you know, so, that helps in some of those moments. And then when we're there, I'm just, I want you to relax and I want you to have fun. I feel like I have done well. I had the, a, it was a city manager. I was doing some headshots for the head positions over at the city and the city manager. When he finished, he just said, well, he said that was a lot more fun than I thought it was going to be. And that's what I wanted it to be for people. I don't, I recognize that sometimes it's a challenge for people, how they feel about getting their photos taken. But when it's over with, I want them to kind of say, yo, that wasn't too bad. I enjoyed that. And then especially deliver that photograph. That's a solid photo.

Clarence Fisher: That's, that's exactly how I would explain it. It was a lot more fun than I thought it will be.

Mike Tedford: Yeah.

Clarence Fisher: Oh, great. Well, I can't be your tagline though. That can't be your tagline. It'll be more fun than you think.

Mike Tedford: No, my tagline is actually inspiring new perspectives. That's my tagline I hope that I can. I really hope that I can inspire people to feel better about themselves with the photography that you know, I do encounter a lot of people that have, can have a negative feeling about themselves. And I hope to inspire kind of something new by showing them that, that we can really take a good quality photograph.

Clarence Fisher: Don't a lot of us though, even the people that people

Clarence Fisher: That you look at as leaders and think they have it all together, don't a lot of us kind of have those negative feelings.

Mike Tedford: Yeah. Unfortunately, that's true. Unfortunately, that is true. There's a really Clarence I'll tell you the truth. I started taking pictures so that I didn't have to be in them. That was kinda my original motivation. I love taking photographs, but modern. One of my original innovations was I was taking them so I didn't have to be in them. And my attitude has definitely changed over the years. I will more than gladly get in a photograph today, even though I weigh 40 pounds more than I need to. Okay. That's not the camera's fault, but you know what I'm saying? That's not the camera's fault. That's, that's who I am.

Mike Tedford: Yeah. I can, I can do a little Photoshop and I can trim myself up a little bit. You're right. I can do that. And so, and so, you know, and I will, I will maybe do that for myself. And somebody asked me to do it for them, but for the most part, you know, I recognize I am who I am and I can even 40 pounds heavier than I need to be. I can still pose in a manner that shows me in a better light than maybe sometimes I feel about myself and I don't, I don't want to let how I feel about myself. If you don't feel good about yourself, the camera can pick that up. The camera can pick that up and I'll tell you, now I'm going to shift for just a minute. You know, I've worked with a motivational group called the journey training and where I would be a facilitator and I would work in there and I would essentially kind of work with people.

Mike Tedford: I would draw out some of those challenges that they had negative feelings I had about themselves. And I'd have people all the time. How you know these things, you don't know me. You only met me this weekend, but you're, you're, you're picking up on these things. It's because as much as we think we're not, we're holding it in, not telling people it still shows up. And so the camera's picking that up as well. When you don't feel good about yourself, the camera can pick that up. And that's why I want people to stop thinking when I got you in there when I'm taking photographs, I want you to stop thinking about those things. I want to have a conversation with you. I'm going to talk with you. I want to enjoy ourselves. Let's not speak about we're getting a photograph taken because I don't. I want you to forget about those negative thoughts about yourself and do it. And I feel like that inspiring that new perspective. I can start showing you pictures of yourself. That's going to help you change your perspective.

Clarence Fisher: I love that. You shared quite a few stories and I've given, you know, how you've helped me. Is there anything, is there any situation that kind of jumps out to you? I don't want you to name names or anything, but, you know, an example of how you've helped a client overcome all these obstacles that we've talked about and, you know, have it a really successful photo shoot, really successful photographs that came out of it.

Mike Tedford: Yeah. I mean, I don't know that I can narrow it down to a specific experience, but I, as I think about the course over the last several years of times that, you know, I, I think I shared early on that I really feel successful when somebody makes an image that I've taken to them, their profile because they feel good about it. And that's one of the things I've seen consistently that I really appreciate when somebody comes in and I'm talking to them and I'm kind of visiting with them. And then when they kind of walk away, well, that was fun. And then I showed them the picture and they're just like, wow, I see that consistently. And as I'm kind of telling you the story, I'm thinking, there was one, there was one now that the individual had and I was doing, it was a specialty photo shoot, too.

Mike Tedford: I was doing a, I was helping a makeup artist, do a portfolio. And we had hired a couple of, I said, we hired, we got a couple of volunteers to come in, that we would do their makeup. And we were doing these pictures and we had one individual very nicely. And I recognize while I was doing the picture that she really had a very negative image of herself. And as we work through the photo shoot and I was starting to show her some of the pictures at the end, I really saw a transformation. I saw transformation just for her looking at the back of the camera from the end of the photo shoot. I saw a transformation from the beginning until the end that it really, she started to see those pictures. And when we finally finished the pictures and I showed her the edited images, just how happy she was about that. And she was one of the ones that I would truly say. I think it had a, uh, the impact was, was, um, was pretty great on, on changing her perspective about herself and her self image and feeling good about herself.

Clarence Fisher: That's good. So if you go back to you shared how you ended up being a professional, what inspired you to be a professional photographer? And you may have said that you said that you wanted to, uh, you started taking pictures because you didn't want to be in them, but can you remember at what point inspired you to say, I want to really dig into photography because I met you at an event. I believe that's where I met you at one of the journey events, or I don't know it was, it was around this time, I guess. And, and you were taking pictures and I thought, just like you said, I thought a visa number for amateur photography. She has a lot of equipment. He is serious about it. Like, you know,

Clarence & Mike: What, what inspired you to say, Hey, I really want to dig into this. I actually have to give credit to my, uh, my daughter for that. I have five children, four daughters, one son, but, this probably goes back to my oldest daughter when she was in high school. And so essentially I had always taken pictures. I'd always, you know, like I said do it. I always had a camera and I had equipment, not as much equipment as I think I did when I met you. But I always had, you know, at that time I think I was shooting, shooting film at that point? I was pretty close to shooting film still in the mid two thousand. But, you know, I, I did cameras. I love taking pictures. I did all of that in high school college and took classes and everything of that nature.

Mike Tedford: That was an art form for me. I did, I did a lot of art painting and drawing and things of that nature. So that was an art form to me, and then got married, had kids. And so as with, you know, some hobbies, they, they kind of get put aside. I still took photographs, took lots of photographs of vacations and things of that nature, but my daughter wanted to, wanted to take a photography class in high school. And it was a junior senior-level class, and she was a freshman and she wanted to take the class. And so I just said that I was like, fine. You can borrow my camera. You can take the class. And what I realized is the reason why I was a junior senior-level class is because you need to be able to drive, to go do the projects.

Mike Tedford: And so as a freshman, she couldn't drive. So I said, well, we'll do it together. I will, whatever the project is, I'll set time aside so we can go do it together and you get your homework done and work on the projects. And my daughter, very astute kind of looked at me and she says, okay, dad, if you do this, you can't tell me how to do the projects. They're my projects. You can't tell me how to do them. And so I sped up, I kind of looked at that's very fair. That's very fair. I won't tell you how to do the projects, but what I will do is whatever the project is, I will do it too. Whatever the assignment is, you do it, I'll do it to you, do it your way. I'll do it my way. And, and so again, very astute, she's a smart young girl. And she says, okay, dad, I've talked to my teacher and she's in agreement that, if you're doing a project that you have to turn it in for a grade, just like me.

Mike Tedford: So that's how it started. That's I should have thought that's how kind of things turned around. So every, every two weeks we had a project and I was doing it with my daughter and it just really caused us to go out and do things. And I would, uh, whatever the project was, I would do it and I would print it out and I would send it with her to school today. It was due and she would, uh, it would get graded just like everybody else's. And, even when they, when they did a had to do a book report, I would up having to do a book report on a photographer as well. And the day my daughter took a final in class, she came home that afternoon with a copy of the final and an envelope and gave it to me cause you have an hour and a half to finish this, which I will have to be honest.

Mike Tedford: I'll have to be honest. I did get an A in the class, but I got a B on the final. I didn't do. She got an A on the final. I got B on the final, but from there, from there, we started taking other classes at TCC and places like that. And I was just, I was taking classes that I just enjoyed. I mean, people would ask me, especially like when I went and got a degree at OSU, they said, you know, you feel like you need a degree. And I said, no, I don't feel like I need a degree. I feel like I want to take photographs. And if I'm going to take photographs and I'm going to put myself on a self-imposed this degree plan, I'm going to put this degree plan on myself to get, because if I order to get the degree at taking classes, if I, in order to take classes, I have to do homework.

Mike Tedford: And if I have to do homework, that means I have to take pictures and that's what I wanted to do. And so that's kinda how it all flowed together and that, so that's why it really took off for me at that point. And, and I really, I strive to be the difference between professional, not professional is, are you getting paid for it? But even when I was not getting paid for it, I, I strive to have the absolute best images that I could get. And I really worked hard at that. That was something that was very important to me.

Clarence Fisher: Beautiful. And I, and I see them, I love when you post them. And, and I can tell by looking at them that you're challenging yourself with the images, that's great.

Mike Tedford: Yeah, sometimes, sometimes the hardest thing about being in the commercial photography is that I've been working on these wonderful projects, but I'm working with somebody else on it. And therefore, I can't always show it. Maybe I'm working on a commercial or something of that nature. And so I can't show this image that I've taken because I have a contract with somebody and, you know, I can't show it till what's long past done, which is at this point. So I have to go out and take my own pictures. I can show those.

Clarence Fisher: Uh, so, so being in business now with the photography, and, you've mentioned that you were in business, but before this, and you know, very successful business. I did not know that marketing was in your, the marketing of that business was in their wheelhouse. I probably should have courted you harder on that. Can you share something you learned early on that still impacts how you, how you do business now?

Mike Tedford: Something that I learned early on

Clarence & Mike: And it could be, it could be, it could either be in business or it could be something maybe I don't know that you learned growing up. Cool. I'm just trying to

Mike Tedford: Think of, you kind of hit me on, I probably filled with information on this one, but I just, I can't think of something just off the top of my head. One of the things that I do think has helped me a great deal is kind of sales experience and feeling comfortable to talk to people. That's definitely something that I bring from, from early on, you know, kind of moving forward into where I am now, but at the same time, probably going back to the marketing, maybe some of the marketing aspects of things of where that, that importance is of marketing for your business. And really not necessarily when I say marketing for your business, but keeping the goal in mind, what's the goal and keeping it in mind and, you know, sometimes creating that expectation.

Mike Tedford: And, and I'll give you a radio example. If I may, we needed to hire a new staff person in our office. And so I ran a media campaign or a radio campaign over about eight weeks trying to hire a new staff person. And I remember my marketing representative coming to me, uh, about two weeks into the campaign. And as I'm sure, you've kind of talked about sometimes, you know, people is this working, is this working, and how do I know what's working? And I think the person I was working with, they were concerned, you know, that I was there, they weren't made sure I was happy with the, with the campaign and how it was going. And so, like I said, about two weeks into it, they came to me and they said, are you happy with the campaign?

Mike Tedford: Are you getting, are you getting people applying? Is it working for you? And I remember looking at her and I said, Oh, I don't care. You know, not at this point, I don't care what's happening right now. And she kind of looks at me, she's like, you know, what, what do you mean you don't care? You know? And I said, look, I said, this is a longterm project for me. And I said, I'm blasting, but I'm putting this message out there. And it's airing multiple times a day. And the people then the first two weeks that have contacted me are either unemployed or unhappy. They either don't like their job or they're unemployed. I said those are not the people I'm looking for. The person I'm looking for is the person who is the skilled individual at their job, who hasn't really been thinking about moving.

Mike Tedford: They're pretty happy, pretty content. And so I'm having to drip this campaign on them for the next several weeks to get them to start thinking about what is, what is maybe I should try. I hear that guy over there is hiring to get them to just start thinking I should. So in the first two, three weeks, I said, I'm not getting the people that I really want to talk to. And so that's what I'm in sometimes about understanding what the goal is, understanding kind of what the objective is at times that you're doing something. And so when I'm working on a project, you know, that's where sometimes I'll be talking to somebody, trying to understand what the goals are, where they're at, or help shift their expectations on it. That kind of, you know, this is great. I love to do the job, but this is probably not going to work to get what you're looking for. Maybe we need to shift the expectation to something a little bit different in there, but that would be, I think one of my takeaways of having learned marketing kind of coming through it is kind of looking at what the objectives are and how you're getting it. And so that you're not disappointed two weeks into the process because you don't feel like you've got what you were looking for.

Clarence Fisher: Hello, that someone has power in that. So much power in that the, if I'm, if I'm a professional and, or, you know, business owner, entrepreneur, and I'm trying to consider whether I should hire a professional photographer, what's the most important question that I need to ask myself,

Mike Tedford: Wow.

Clarence Fisher: Or what are, I'll put it this way, what are some things that I need to consider if that would, allow me that would trigger this in me, that I need to hire a professional? So like at what point do I go? I say you know what? I should probably bring a professional here.

Mike Tedford: Well, that's a, that's a really good question. I think it, I say it depends. I mean, you know, and I think that's, you know, for each individual, they'll have to think about that visual impact is, is huge. I mean, it's what Instagram is based on its visual impact. And as I look, it's funny, I've been looking and watching a lot of the images, whether it's on Facebook, or Instagram or some of the others that I'm aware that people that we're following him, we're looking at who, who we think are, are showing us these casual lifestyle pictures. They're having professionals, photographers, do them for them. And so it's some point you're going to grow into that moment. And that's probably a little hard for me to say when exactly is that moment in as far as doing it. So I would, I would think, uh, I guess I'd put it this way. When's your next event?

Clarence Fisher: When is your next event and what is that event? Is it going to be a new hire? Is it going to be a groundbreaking new office location? You're opening an office. I did, an event where a company brought in their new office. There they're located in Arkansas, but they were opening one in Tulsa and they were doing a grand opening with a business after hours opportunity. And they hired a professional photographer to come in and capture those moments and do that. So that's when I say, when's your next event, and maybe look at hiring a professional photographer for that event, that might be a place to start. That might be a place to start. And so that you can, you can highlight that through your website, through your social media, you have those images that you can use as well as use that for a press release of some type and putting it together. So I guess that's where I would if I'm, if we're, as we're sitting there talking about it, and I've had a chance to think about it as that question is when's my next event. And would this be a good event, hire a professional photographer to capture?

Clarence Fisher: I totally agree. It is almost the best-kept secret in what we call authority, positioning, even my own career, of having pictures. Even my wife in the very beginning, she would, she would show up at the events and she would take pictures. And just having

Clarence & Mike: In front of people, I'll do to parlay that into other events and use that in marketing. I remember when we talk about authority positioning, I mean, we got really, so we got really good at it. And when you said that, you know, the Instagram people are hiring these professionals, man, it is the world we live in, for instance, I'll put myself on the block here. I remember a conversation that we had years ago. I had a certain, a certain look in reality. I didn't care what I drove or what I remember. I drove that truck that had the big dent on the side, my big brother, cause I didn't care. I really didn't care. And we had a conversation once and in it, and you probably don't remember this, but in the conversation, you said, you know, appearance matters. I think, man, I love my candidness. And when I left, I thought, you know, it's not like I can't afford another truck, you know, or another, whatever. I just never really care, but people do.

Mike Tedford: Yeah, they do. They do care. They do care. Exactly. You know, so, and photography is, is that visual image that stimulation that you're putting out there?

Clarence Fisher: Absolutely. So, so how do I, how do I evaluate photographers closing out?

Mike Tedford: Well, you know, one of the great ways is, is going and looking at the material. I mean, whether you're trying to find my website at Miketedford.com or you're looking for me on Facebook or Instagram is just seeing kind of what I'm putting out there. And I think that's, I think that's a good step as far as kind of looking at it so that I think I'd probably be there probably one of them, you know, I've had, I've had a number of opportunities that have arisen because somebody has looked at my material and said, Oh, I see you're different than, you know, I do a lot more commercial work and then say, I do families and I do weddings and things of that nature. But I think I do more commercial work working with professionals than I do, maybe doing the weddings and the, and the family photos.

Mike Tedford: And so that's what people will see. They'll go look at a photographer and they'll say, well, we picked you because it's clear, you're, you're doing more commercial working with businesses than you are, you know, doing families. And so that's, that's maybe how to, you kind of look at it in that sense, a little bit of what they're doing and how they're doing it. And do you like what they're doing in their work that they've got? I think that's probably the value of exactly what I'm telling you to do exactly what I know other people are doing to the businesses that are listening to us right now, the reason why you want the photographer is because I'm telling you to do what I know that others are doing. You know, they're going and looking at your material, they're looking at what you've got and they're deciding is this person, do I feel like I've got a match for this person?

Clarence Fisher: Absolutely. So is that the, is that the place where you want people to go? Because I can't, I cannot refer you enough. Is that, is that where we need to go? Where did you say to go?

Mike Tedford: Yeah, it might Miketedford.com is my website. And that's, if they want to go to my website there, that's fine. There's a link there. They can send me a message for, for an email that we can get connected. They can find me on Facebook and Instagram as well. That's the great thing is type in Mike Tedford photography. And a lot of my stuff is going to show up. That's kind of my calling card to some extent. So, and I get people messaging me on Facebook, messaging me on Instagram and messaging me on LinkedIn too, as far as you know, wanting to get together. So I try to respond to all of those resources as people reach out to me.

Clarence Fisher: I love it. Love it, Mike, thank you so much for spending so much. I know we ran over, but I just enjoy talking to you and you are sharing so much information. Thank you so much for coming by.

Mike Tedford: I thoroughly enjoyed visiting with you.

Outro: We appreciate you listening to Local Market Monopoly. Be sure to review and subscribe to the show and visit clarence fisher.com for more resources that will help you dominate your local market and own the block.